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Re: If he were a babe...
Posted By: Sam, on host 24.128.86.11
Date: Friday, August 3, 2001, at 07:15:06
In Reply To: Re: If he were a babe... posted by Travholt on Friday, August 3, 2001, at 04:39:15:

> Okay, the phrase "If he were a babe" has me slightly confused, and I'd like comments from people prominent in the English language on this.
>
> Is the use of "were" correct? More importantly, since what I really want is to get the whole picture right: What are the rules for when you use "was" and when you use "were"?
>
> I was
> You were
> He/she/it was (that's what I thought, at least)
> We were
> You were
> They were
>
> Is this wrong? (Yes, I learned this, or at least should have learned it, in school years ago, but if the above is wrong, it seems to have slipped from my mind...)

The use of "were" is correct, but you are correct that generally speaking "I" and "he/she/it" are singular. "If he were a babe" is an example of the subjunctive tense, in which there is speculation about what might have been but which is not. It always (I think) follows the word "if," and the plural "were" is used for all subjects. Here are some examples:

"If I were you, I would...."
"If wishes were roses, I'd have...."
"If she were my daughter, I'd...."

Note, however, that not all clauses following "if" are subjunctive. Here are two different sentences, both correct, which mean different things:

"If Thomas Jefferson were President..." begins a speculation about how something would be if Thomas Jefferson were President at the present time, or some other specified time during which it is known Jefferson was NOT President. "If Thomas Jefferson was President..." implies that you are talking about a past point in history and you are not sure if Jefferson actually WAS president or not.

In a nutshell, the subjunctive tense is used when it is KNOWN that the case you are speculating about is NOT true. But if you use the word "if" to begin a clause that might actually be the case, it is not a usage of the subjunctive tense, and the normal verb tenses apply.

"If he were any more selfish, I'd not have gotten any pie at all!"

"If he was late for a meeting, that would explain why he was in a hurry."

Generally if there is a "then" clause after the "if" clause, such as in this very sentence, then the "if" clause is NOT subjunctive, because you are making a statement about what MIGHT be true. The problem is that the word "then" is often optional, and in fact it is omitted in the "if he was late for a meeting, [then] that would explain why he was in a hurry" example.

S "English is crazy/fun" am

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