> (Also, I must confess, I'm playing a game of "guess-the-denomination;" knowing that you're a minister, I'm attempting to determine which denomination of the faith you follow. And don't tell me; that's no fun. :-})
>

Okay, I won't tell you, but I *will* clear up one point. I'm currently only a lay minister, since I haven't yet sought ordination. Sure, I've got a degree, and I'll want to be ordained one of these days, but right now that's where I'm at.

> I'm also, as I've said before, a student of religion. As such, I can assure you that another reason this discussion is making no meaningful progress is because we are evaluating through a Christian framework an idea that just doesn't fit into that framework. If I may quote Saint Anselm at you: "God is that than which nothing greater can be conceived." That is the basic Christian conception of God; God is the greatest, and nothing can be greater than God (arguments from Kant, Tillich and such that adjectives [such as "great" and "greater"] don't apply to God notwithstanding; that's a whole different can of worms that leads to the same result folowing a different path). Therefore, in a Christian theology, man cannot become God or become God's equal or better. That just doesn't apply. There is some variation about the complete otherness of God within Christian thought, however; Karl Barth would place God as completely other than man and say that the only interaction between man and God is that of God acting through grace and upon man, while Paul Tillich (I believe; correct me if I have the wrong theologian) would say that man and God interact in a Buberian I-Thou sense, and God changes through this interaction as well. But, throughout this entire spectrum of "Godlinesses," God is still other and greater than man. Such is the nature of Christian thought and theology.
>

I don't think I *can* correct you on any of those points. Tillich and Kant, at any rate, seem to be fresher in your mind than in mine. I'll have to start re-reading some of my old school assignments. :-)

> Anyone advancing the notion that man could or will become God's equal someday is not starting from a position in Christian theology, and that must be recognized in order for the discussion to go anywhere. Debate all you will; if one party is arguing from a Christian standpoint and the other from outside of that, the argument will simply become "is-not--is-so."
>

Yep...you're right. My hope would be, though, that there can even be discussion between persons starting within and without Christian theology, so long as they at least acknowledge that they are each speaking of things which have a real existence outside their own minds, or feelings. That's become increasingly hard to do ever since Kant put forth his Critique of Pure Reason, but we all have to *act*, at least, as though we're living in an objectively real world. (Not that I'm saying anything you didn't know already, of course.)

> > We can agree to disagree, but let's not imagine that the disagreement is not meaningful, not rooted in facts about which we are either correct or mistaken.
>
> I have an interesting statement to make in response to this, drawing from Karl Rahner and suchlike funstuff, but I'm not prepared for that just yet. Remind me later. ;-}
>

Okay, it's later now. Hop to it!

> > Issachar
> >
> > .....is back. Just accept it. :-)
>
> Well... I dunno. That might be kinda tricky. Maybe if you sent some money, it would help me reconcile to the harsh reality of your sudden return. ;-}
>
> Seriously, though, it's good to have you back. I was getting lonely without my evil other half around. :-} Lotsa stuff has changed since you left... we're slotting a couple hundred posts a day nowadays, for one thing. Remember when we got a dozen on a really active day? ;-}
>
> Sorry, folks. Us old-timers gotta reminisce. :-}
>

Yeah. Time was, when a body had to click more'n once t'get far enough down the main RinkWorks page t'see them 'Puter Stupidities. Maybe even three or four clicks! But was that good enough? Nosiree! Now these young'uns all gotta have SIDE MENUS and all whatnot, mutter, mutter, mutter.....

> Darien
>
> ... Is a dork. Just accept it. :-}

Never!

Iss "Nein!" achar