> > Thanks, Sam, for alerting me to the existence of this thread. I've just now read every post in it and, well, .....WHEW.
>
> You're not alone in feeling that way. You know, I am curiously flattered that you chose to tack up your 'Return engagement' beneath my 'Wishful thinking' banner. Just the other day I was wishing I knew what had happened to ole Issy :)
>
>

Not much to speak of; he just got all fat and lazy. Okay, maybe not fat (though I have *got* to start jogging again), but the move to NC really threw me off my routines, including treading the hallowed halls of Rinkworks on a daily basis. Sorry 'bout that, and thanks for the welcome back!

> > [snippety]
> >
> > One of the biggest ethical, practical, religious and philosophical problems of our day is the problem of authority. Perhaps our strongest cultural mandate in America is to resist authority, and this resistance is practiced at all levels. It appears notably in the conviction that "no one should presume to know more than I do about what is best for me." In the foregoing discussions of this thread, that "no one" has included God.
>
> Let's see if I know what you're getting at: North America, in itself, was populated by groups of people borne in the "spirit of freedom" and fiercely proud of their frontier individuality. Many of them had originally fled the heavy hand of brutal "authority" in England and France where they'd endured social or religious persecution. Thus to an extent, the first N.American colonists had genetically self-selected themselves to rely on independence and individuality. So when it comes down to the question of submitting ourselves to real, valid authorities -- God, Christ, and our own pastors and clergy who are, after all, God's representatives on earth -- we balk at the notion of giving up our "rights" to think we can do as we please. I say that this is because North Americans have *forgotten* what it is like to live under a monarchy and under an absolute King, who, in the bad old days, had absolute power of life and death over all his subjects. (-: But that in effect is the power of authority that God has over us... Yet he shows restraint and mercy even to the unworthy.
>
>

Actually, the individualism of the American frontier was one of the very things I was thinking of while typing that paragraph, but I didn't want to start bringing in too many examples for fear of straying far off topic (something I've been known to do).

Regarding the American's lack of experience under monarchy, I've often counted myself lucky to have read and enjoyed stories like the Arthurian legends from an early age. I credit those readings to a large extent with helping me to understand the Bible's analogical language about God as a King, and to appreciate what it might be like to live and serve under a benevolent monarch.

> > Once the other party lowers the drawbridge and crosses his own moat, as it were, he and I can accomplish a lot in a discussion. Since at that point we're both standing on the same ground of recognizing authority, we can get down to the business of examining and validating the authority of those sources that underlie our beliefs.
>
> > I love to talk about God: who He is, what He's like, how He allows me to know Him and how He wants others to know Him too. I love to debate theology and to repeat the simple gospel story over again. But there's no real savor in talking just to hear myself talk (although my own pride is sometimes still gratified by it). The enjoyment is in finding someone who is interested in hearing, and has something to say on his part as well.
>
> Heh. To hear you, and Sam, approach the subject of God as deeply and bracingly as I think you two do, is joy itself. I've always been frustrated when putting out feelers in a certain direction, asking serious questions about God, only to be rebuffed with a "nobody believes that anymore," or the even worse response "Who cares?" At least in this forum we can afford to think seriously as well as flippantly about issues that affect us all.
>
>

You're 100% right about that. Did I mention it's good to be back?

> > Issachar
> >
> > .....is back. Just accept it. :-)
>
> Whoohoo!!

Hehe.

Iss